by Black Dog Bone
Tell us your name and where we are and everything.
I am Kigozimarvinaliaslm, the poet from Talanta youth movement Bavubuka all-star dance flow and the black race movement. Am a rapper and a poet and am in the line of building hip hop in my community to transform people’s lives.
Where are we?
We are in Jinja
Is the restaurant we are in on the main street?
This is called Park Villa Restaurant in Jinja at Clive Road. I am meeting my brother and well as a friend from the states.
It is interesting to meet rappers in Kampala. There are a lot of rappers rapping in English, but there is a big change and there are a lot of people making this change. So you as the second generation, who are some people when growing up who made you the chain?
I first of all knew what rap was, I was seven years when I first saw Sabasaba. I was in primary four, I saw him on TV and I got interested because he was freestyling and I was like I have to do this myself. When I grew up the rappers in Uganda were doing it in English for example Navio, but we could not understand because sometimes and most cases in Uganda people did not get the chance to go to school so they could not get the message of the English rappers. But as I grew up God helped me and I met a group called Talent for Life which was made by Jimmy, Urban and Onesmus. They taught me and told me I have to do my language because the language is the key to everything and when I was in high school most of the rappers were imitating Lil Wayne and Eminem and I was like not me I can’t rap in English and I felt that I can do something in my language so I started freestyling and right now I do it in Luganda and it has a big impact whenever I rap in my language Luganda and Lusoga. I feel good because the old people can also get my message.
I see it has been a good moment since you have been to Kampala, Jinja and Gulu tell me.
Of course when you look around Uganda, the truth around Ugandan hip hop basically in Kampala people have really got to understand the culture of hip hop because the rappers and writers have been so influential towards the development of the culture in Uganda so when you come in Jinja where I stay I have been inspired by the guys in Kampala, because I always go in Kampala and rap but I do it in Lusoga and Luganda and they are like you are good you can also spread out the information so when I come back in Jinja I feel like I want to spread out the information and that’s why these days I call myself a battle MC at different high schools because I get on performance and promise to do the rap in the original languages because when you see that’s why we started a movement led by me and Cloudy Freddy so as to influence the development of hip hop in Jinja because Jinja is not so much independent and that’s what we are working hard to see that we have a hip hop night in Jinja if God wishes I have a dream of having a festival of hip hop in Jinja and I think people will get to understand it.
Tell me, as you grew up in Jinja is there any big difference between Jinja and Kampala?
All I can say in Jinja the culture is more of young people not like in Kampala where one spreads the information. Am feeling happy that the young generation in Jinja is fighting to see that the culture is there, that people can start listening to real indigenous languages. For example, the radio stations do not play indigenous languages or even rap so that’s why we don’t have a lot of funds to pay to radio stations that’s why we always do ciphers. We use our indigenous voices to let people understand what the truth is. So basically what I can say is that in Kampala there a lot of MCs which is not the case in Jinja. In Jinja there are MCs but they don’t work towards the development of the movement to see that the Luga Flow movement grows in Jinja but now am happy because the movement is growing. However much the movement is just growing and dominated by the young people. It is good because in one or two years Jinja will be a town of hip hop so that’s the vision we have as Talanta and we keep on spreading it and transforming peoples lives from doing foreign languages to start doing their own languages.
People think rap came from America and now it has come back in Africa and connecting it too your own roots, it is very positive.
Yeah, to be honest hip hop started in Africa but just because back in the days of slavery, colonial era. Africans were taken to different countries and states as slaves and were arrested in cells so when they traded they left marks that they had passed via that place and that’s where art started. Art stated back in the days and rap, they used to penetrate and came in with a mind of poet rapping on beats and drums. But just because the culture was really spotlighted by Americans because time came whom most of the slaves originally lived in America and the culture in America that’s why they say it originated from the states in New York town but it is originally from Africa and that’s why we are reconnecting it back to Africa.
Africans used to have rock art in the trees, that’s like rapping and then the drums. Tell us something about the drums and the African beat.
In Africa drums are used as a media of communication and that’s why I always want to do my rap on African drums because I feel like it’s a media of communication because our grandparents used the drums as a media of communication. Whenever I hear the drums I feel like I want to rap, communicate. And whenever someone drums I have to talk what is on my mind. African poetry is very conscious coz it speaks a lot, its a voice of itself but in Africa we use our minds to communicate to different people and roots. Our proverbs in Africa are called Engelo and Lusogaebikocho. It means the proverbs were still used back in days but right now we don’t still use them on our generation. That’s why we the MCs and poets of this generation have to work hard and change to bring back those proverbs because they were very influential towards the development of human status. So poetry is a media of communication so in Africa if someone poet rates they always talk about what is in Africa. Like me when I get the microphone I always try to communicate what is really on ground in Africa because poetry is a media of communication and the drums too. So if we use the drums we communicate and the zyphols too. When poets get the microphone they communicate and that’s the way we deliver our message to change peoples lives.
The TV stations show other things that the young people get involved in and copy the western culture it confuses and mixes up the culture and it destroys but you guys are bringing the people back.
Yeah that’s why I told you the media is not doing that much that’s why we get down to communities and villages because most people in Uganda cannot afford the whole technology. When you move around 10 Ugandan families, 6 have TV yet the four don’t have. That’s why we the MCs in Jinja gave the name Talanta to the group to use our talents to rap and bring up enough influence which the TV cannot do so that’s why we make our own ciphers to bring out our messages and talk about positive things. That’s why our theme Is to give power to the people, we value our flag and support the future because it needs to be groomed its just that we are not lucky that in Uganda back in the days but right now we have that luck. The culture is growing and we have people that can always support us. We have people that can always give us advice I always feel happy when I sing in my language and I hate It when I go to the radio and I have to speak English, but I always have no option so I speak English because Africans didn’t go to school. When we use our voices we have to use the our local languages and most people who have the influence are always not getting down to the roots they are thinking to get on TV. That’s why in ciphers we are always down at the base with an aim of convincing people that this is our language. We Ugandans, we Basogo.
Explain to me what a cipher is.
A cipher most people know it as circle where rappers get together and rap, but a gathering where only positive minds gather. In other wards you only have to speak the truth because the truth will set you free. So a rap cipher, we gather as MCs, we gather and discuss positivity. It’s a cipher of wisdom, it’s a peoples cipher. We have to share, and me personally when I am in a cipher I always think deep and try to communicate something I cant say when am alone, I ask questions I don’t know. Its about positive minds
That’s positive because you guys are going to be the leaders of your country of Uganda and I feel you have your positive ways and culture.
Yeah coz one thing I always communicate at our center I tell the youth that knowledge is power and that the future is in our hands and our generation has faced a lot of problems like outside cultures and cultures here are dying and I always explain to the youth. Most youth are inspired by the Jay Z’s and Iam also inspired by the Jay Z’s, but I feel like when I do my own language I feel good so I always communicate to the people and that’s what is on my mind because our culture is not given time to develop and spread our culture because even the guys in the states when they come to Uganda they spread their culture. That’s why I spread my culture too. Because they give themselves a responsibility to spread their culture that’s why I do that too and I always tell my people here to do music with drum beats other than western beats I mean its natural in beat boxing.
Talk about how you want to bring back beat boxing into urban music.
Yeah basically as an MC, the poet, I had to do rap on urban beats coz so many people are like those are not our beats, so I use drums. We use drums to break dance all over the world but when you do B-Boy on African drums people will be “Hey this guy is from Uganda,” because our culture is important and sometimes it sucks when you ask a boy to tell you about their culture and they don’t know anything and that’s sad when you ask him when you tell him to tell me musicians from Africa they don’t know. I use African beats because this is Africa so we got to use African drums and beats.
A lot of people don’t know what’s good and you had everything and you had disease but people don’t understand you didn’t need aid but when they came they took everything.
Basically when I started my movement I first held a microphone I was talking about the Talanta movement. I said our culture was better and we have a scene. For a longtime we were naïve and I basically took time and I talked to my grandfather, he is 85 years, and he told me that back in the days people used to drum but in this generation people hate drums and he told me that we have to bring back our culture that’s why I tell guys who come to our movement and want to be like Jay Z but I tell them “Hey this is Uganda, you have to first embrace our culture and then you go out there and start to explore and make your own identity.” I hate to work with guys with such minds and I tell people not to label me. Some hip hop artists don’t get it that they are an influence because kids love to be like them, that if you put on something that’s not African then the kids will think that western stuff is better than African stuff which is not good to me that’s the culture so whenever they get on stage you have to represent Africa and I put on the t shirts when I perform. It’s a key issue to development we don’t have to copy from them.
You are young. How do you understand all this?
Basically when I started doing rap I was lucky I went to a group that inspired me to learn. I went to a village and I talk to the old people because they were here and they were young during the time of colonialists they saw everything and when I talk to them they tell me what’s good and to be done and I read about African culture and I give myself responsibility of understanding everything in the past generation and connecting with the present generation. Don’t want to be in Kampala because the guys in Kampala talk about Kampala that why I stayed In Jinja and a year back I wanted to move to Kampala but I thought “Hey, am going to betray my people. I belong to Jinja so I should stay here. I got to use the voice I have because am gifted many people want to communicate but the youth don’t give them time. They are on the internet, Facebook and other media, they actually don’t care about what these people have to say so basically I decided I have to be in Jinja and many guys have the talent but they want dime but dime is second to culture that’s why I travel and go to Gullu. I get experience with other youth they don’t know our youth and media. They don’t have programmers of old people and they were there during colonialism but people are going to die before communication so they are old revolution.
I think I have a camera so you and I can go to the village and talk to the people and we communicate with them.
Yeah that will be great to work on that because I recently realized the elders have the power to influence everything. I was talking to an old lady, she is 94 years, she said that the elders are tired. They hate youths because we move in mistakes. She was surprised that you visited only family visits and we want a movement called lack race and you have a freedom to do everything I wrote a song saying “Nazza ggwaki, okubba omufirika obufirika obuyise langi?” What happened? Or to be an African and people just call it color. I got the idea after talking to the lady. MCs should connect with their roots so we need to send a message that can develop their culture.
I was wondering, like drums and instruments, are there people in the villages still playing them?
Yeah they do it and to be honest you will only find a few youths that can play drums but I have also learned how to play drums and I want to hold on to my culture and of course one of our vision we want to have a full month and we visit old people in villages talking to them and telling us stories. You can sit from morning to morning because they have a lot to communicate. We need a generation that knows our culture and that why Africans here, moreso musicians, fight a lot they are like “Man I wrote my song and you stole it” or “I have been in you’re ear for ages and am not growing big and you are growing big.” You know, this generation people think about money and we need money but we need to develop so whenever I get to Kampala I feel like baba is building and I want that to happen to Jinja.
When you come to Jinja people talk about Ram MC and Jungle.
Am proud and happy with Baba and Jungle they support me and when I had just started the movement people never gave me too much support with this movement Talenta and up to now they have not given me too much support but now we have 20 youths who are good and they are to be based in Jinja. And these guys in Kampala were born in Kampala and I use my energy right here in Jinja and I feel so happy when I get to Kampala and am representing Jinja and that’s what I tell people I mean its my hood and that’s the energy we put in so I try to give the energy to keep on supporting us like Baba and Sylvester have given us big support in the movement coz people can’t just believe in you. We spent seven hours in the village like me, Cop and Cloud plus seven more artists, you know we went there with a mind of talking to the old people they feel like a lot was taken and our culture is in a deep hole. Years back we didn’t have a lot of hip hop in Uganda but up to now its popular. It’s different from the 90s. It has grown and most of the youth like to rap. It’s getting bigger. Back in the days there were a few rappers but now its really big and most of the upcoming artists are hip hop artists.
The cool thing is that people were rapping in English but now they are rapping in local languages.
Yeah people used to rap in English but they realized people have to learn more about them, just to extend their culture so that’s why I rap in English too and most especially its easy to rap in your mother tongue and the public understands you and if you are a rapper and you rap in English it’s most certain that you will not become popular to other locals but if you rap in your language both English people and locals will listen to you. In Kenya, most Kenyans rap in Swahili but I don’t know Swahili and in Tanzania they use Swahili.
So then I was like we have to stand up and use our energy because God gifted us and I basically have talent and many people don’t have the gift of speaking but I can speak and I was like hey we need to speak and communicate and next day when I got back from the village I had a show at Flavor but I was thinking about the old woman’s song and then we started to sing that longtime ago we never had clothes we never even had power, and the whites brought all that and we used to believe in our culture. We used to dress like our culture back in the days we chose to sit down around fire and communicate and whenever people hold microphones they speak hey I love you then this and that but that we were talking about the real deal and real music and what happened back in the days.
What village was that?
The village is called Namenya in Buikwe District and it is kind of far from here. You have to cross the bridge and I feel like it was a good experience and I feel like we can do that at least every month.
How do you communicate to people I mean do you tell them that you are coming?
We have a friend called Cop Zac. He told me, “Hey Ram MC,” because we do a lot of gatherings there because we have different youth coming stay to my house in Mbiko or any other guys home coz we need to support each other so Cop Zac called me and told me, “Yeah Ram we have to be at our home,” and it was a deep village and there were no homes like you find a house here and a house there spaced he told me there a lot of old people and most of them depend on agriculture and I asked him if there were elderly people we would talk to because I would just love to walk around and see how the village looks like and I met an old woman but she thought I was like other youth so someone told me that that lady tells stories of longtime ago. I was like really? So we got back to that lady and we found other ladies and we started conversing and I was like “Mamma we here,” and we were passing around with my friend and he told me you had been living for some good years since the colonial era and she said she was very young when the colonialists came in Uganda and I asked her what happened really? And she was surprised to hear a youth asking such a question because most youth don’t mind about such things and started narrating stories including the error of Amin Dada, Obote, Mutesa, we just read them in the books and the books can’t tell the whole story but for her she told us the true story. And she said we were exploited and our culture was really taken. Right now the culture is no more living and people do not respect the culture when you go to urban shows and play your African beat they say that guy is really dope. And she said for them they don’t go to shows now days because we are not given a portion of our culture. And she said we need to revive our culture though the foreign one has to be around because now we cant splash it out because it exists, and she said if we can also use our energy because we are still young because I told her am an indigenous MC from Jinja rapping in Lusoga and Luganda and I was passing around and I was interested to talk to you. And she told me were are the people who are supposed to go and tell the youth to do the same thing because if we do that she will find a big achievement in our culture and a Uganda as a whole. Within period of one month or a year you will find more youth interested in culture because when I go to shows they are really more urban yet its not something representing Africa. And that’s what happens in Uganda and that’s the truth behind the hip hop of Uganda we need to fight and use our energies and that’s the message I love to export to different countries around the world to do the same thing. They should bring back the roots of their culture because we can use hip hop because it is very influential.
It doesn’t matter where you tell the message, like the lady told the message to you and now you are telling it to me and many people are going to listen to it. All you need is the one person.
That’s why I tell some performers because they tell ask me what my vision is, what makes you inspired to perform, write? And I tell them let me performing for five people or perform for a number of many people, when I do the right thing they will spread the information. Because I have an organization I work with right now it’s called St. Francis Hospital. It’s found in Jinja and their main issue is to fight against aids so I was at Flavors, a place here in Jinja and I met a guy from Swaziland. He had a drum from Swaziland and he said he is in Uganda to teach at Galaxy International School. And it was interesting after I left the show I told the guy to play for me the drum and he said “No, this drum is my life and I use this drum to communicate,” and the guy started playing the drum and then I started rapping , he did not know I was a rapper so I rapped in Lusoga and represented my culture and he asked what language I was rapping in and I told him “That’s Lusoga the language here in Jinja because in Jinja people here are Basoga so he got surprised and asked a lot of questions like where do you stay and he spread all the information and got me connected to St. Francis Hospital and on Saturday I was at St. Francis presenting to an audience of more than 1,000 people because it was world aids day which was celebrated at St. Francis. so it was the one that sent on the information because I was doing the right thing and he said he had a camera and he wanted to take the video so I see it does not matter the audience it can be two people because it is the same with the audience of 5000 people. And those that get the information will keep on spreading it and they will keep on to know what you are doing and the world too in the end will get to know what you are doing. So its about doing the right thing, in the right way and with the right people and knowing your roots basically.
I liked the things you told me that in the old days they used to play drums and sit by the fire, does that still exist in the village or not too much?
These days that is not done much anymore because they are more influenced with the urban music so most of the time people are listening to radios which radios only play the western music they will not play music that is not urban and that’s not good and I ask myself why are they not playing it yet we have the messages people need to hear? So its not done but in our hip hop its going to happen, we are going to make our fire sites and we order drums and connect them to the microphones and we start rapping. Am so happy the same thing has started in Jinja at a restaurant called Baboon. That makes me happy because I see am in the true environment of my culture and the restaurant itself is on the river so it feels good when am rapping and people love it there and its more of a community event and I love to push that forward and take it all over so that people can do local nights . one thing I can say is that hip hop artists have a big influence on this generation because the new generation looks at hip hop music so if hip hop artists sit down and think about how important they are in building the new generation it will be awesome.
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Damascus the OB
by Black Dog Bone
Please tell me your name.
Am Damascus the OB yeah.
I am so excited about Jinja and I feel like Jinja has a real united team of rappers who are youth. Tell me, how did you get into all this?
It has really been a hustle because this thing that we do we are bringing it on the street yeah all I do is I connect with many guys and we perform at shows and do hip hop.
What influenced you to do hip-hop?
I do my songs out of inspiration
When you started doing hip hop how old were you?
I was 16 and I released my song called “Mamma Africa.”
A lot of people here are rapping in their mother tongues so do you do the same here?
Yeah its great it shows your culture and I rap in Luganda and Lusoga and Ateso and fix in English.
Do you work for this movement too?
Yeah I am part of the Talanta Youth Movement and I volunteer too coz its good to work with youth and they are big fans of hip hop.
Do you think that with hip hop you can get to the youth?
Yeah because the market of the hip hop music is the youth, that’s why the Talanta Youth Movement has dancing and rapping.
How many people are in your group?
Yeah we are over 15 though I don’t know the exact number because I just joined recently.
Do you like hip hop?
Years back we didn’t have a lot of hip hop in Uganda but up to now its popular. Its different from the 90s, it has grown and most of youth like to rap its getting bigger. Back in the days there were few rappers but now its really big and most of the upcoming artists are hip hop artists
The cool thing to me is that people were rapping in English but now they are rapping in local languages.
Yeah people used to rap in English but they realized people have to learn more about them, just to extend their culture so that’s why I rap in English too and most especially its easy to rap in your mother tongue and the public understands you and if you are a rapper and you rap in English its most certain that you will not become popular to other locals but if you rap in your language both English people and locals will listen to you. In Kenya most Kenyans rap in Swahili but I don’t know Swahili and in Tanzania they use Swahili.
I feel like this is going to grow, hip hop that educates the youth. Do you see that happening?
Yeah me too in my song called “Mama Africa” I did it with a Kenyan and I believe we need to come together like Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, Burundi and Congo have one team.
Do you have any mix tapes for people?
The mix tape I have is on Songs Factory. It’s an African web site and it gets songs by all people, and we shall have cds soon.
Do you have an email address, how do people get a hold of you?
I have Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and I use Damascus the OB and a website too. Damascus means the great achievement and OB means original boy am original in what I do.
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Vanjoe MC
by Black Dog Bone
I was in Kampala and Mbarara, its cool but I don’t get excited when I hear people rapping in English but there a lot of rappers in Jinja. Tell me, do you think there is a lot going on in Jinja?
Yeah actually there are many exciting things going on in Jinja, the Stone Town. Basically Jinja means Stone Town and I rap in Lusoga and Musoga and I feel good and people who never went to school understand me and those who stopped at lower levels of education. If am passing on info everyone understand me even when am talking about aids or anything else they understand me.
I feel good that you rap in your local languages I mean you are back to your roots. So how do you feel about that?
I feel good coz some artists leave our languages but I personally feel good. When I rap in our language it helps to uplift our culture. I represent the Lusoga and the African culture. I really feel good about it.
There are so many different languages in Uganda.
There is Luganda and Lusoga, the ones I do and others like Acholi but I don’t understand Acholi. I know Luganda rap because am a Musoga and I love rapping in Lusoga. I feel free and good.
Do they teach in your language?
Not really they teach in English and so we only speak it at home some schools punish when you speak your local language. I guess they don’t really know what culture means and what hurts me most is that you speak Lusoga and the teacher punishes you and yet the teacher who punishes you is a Musoga too and those are the problems we get.
So with your movement you can tell people and maybe in a few years they can start teaching in Lusoga.
Yeah because I will feel good when I find a school teaching in Lusoga because that’s the culture and that’s who we are we are Basoga any way am speaking about Basoga just because am a Musoga but there are other languages like Luganda and when they teach in Luganda I will feel happy because am a Ugandan so we are trying to uplift the culture and we are doing it in Lusoga and that’s what we teach.
When you go to the village do they play drums and local music?
Yeah some villages do cultural music they bring drums and the sing in Lusoga they don’t sing in English they uplift the culture.
It’s good to incorporate local drum beats and music.
Yeah that’s cool actually we visited a place called Sound Box. Actually it was me, Freddy, Cloud and others and there was a guy he made for us a beat using three drums and it was awesome and Talanta Youth Music wants this the studio is close by.
I hope you can get to there.
We are planning to get together and do the whole thing using drums alone it will be fun and great and we are not targeting the mainstream, we want to bring back the old days and you rap. Its in the blood. I feel rap and everything mainstream artists are leaving the culture behind and yet that’s what we want to do
How can people get hold of you do you like have an email address?
I have a Facebook account and I use Vanjoe MC and my phone number is +256758147336. People can get me.
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Ronlyco MC
by Black Dog Bone
People are conscious about the culture talk about that.
It was 2007 we tried to up light the culture through music and people got to notice and we are saying Tudda Kunono and it means back to my roots.
Does it cost a lot of money to go to studio and record?
No it doesn’t cost, the producers see us and they give us a platform to sing in their studios coz they know we are good.
How much would a mix tape cost?
It would cost 100000ugx and if it’s a mix tape you need more money. We have a mix tape through Shadrac Entertainment. I will show it to you and it was done in Jinja. They put us in the booth room and we started to rap and record at our home.
Did the recording cost a lot of money?
Not really we just got our mattresses and put them aside and the producer had the cameras and we recorded.
Do you have a CD coming soon?
Yeah I got a CD coming soon and it’s a mix tape of Talanta Youth. One day we went to a place called Naminya and we talked to rappers and we are good, no gangster life and we do positive change and the old woman saw the difference and she liked it.
What does gangster mean in your language?
It actually means Abayaye and Granny thought we are gangster. Usually gangsters do horrible things to people but we don’t do that but we got a positive change when we talked to her.
What is the age group at the moment?
We are around 18 years but I personally am 16 years and am a positive man in the society Ronlynco MC but am a positive man to the society though am young. Ram MC is older than me he is 18 years.
What kind of music do you make?
Me and Ram MC are brothers and that’s our mum in the market. At first she was scared of us rapping but now she likes it. In Uganda rap is thought of as gangster life but hip hop is cool. We used to listen to Kadongo Kamu when we were growing up and that’s our culture music and it was stated by Prince Kafeero and our ancestors did it.
How do you get a CD of that musician?
You can get it in the market and Dan Mugula they are really good and Sebaata they are many though some died like Kafeero he is a Muganda he was really good.
How do you see yourself? Are you a story teller or poet?
Am story teller. I want to change the negative things that people think about us and even my brother when he grows up they will recognize him through me like he is strong like me. And hip hop is going to grow and we have farming and next year it will be huge and the Bavuubuka support from Baba Luku and Ghetto to Ghetto Ciphers and changing ghettos and improve their cleanliness and if someone finds me cleaning they will know that am positive to the society that’s the ghetto to ghetto ciphers and then back to the source ciphers.
How do people get you?
I have Facebook, @rincolynco and my email is ricolynco@gmail.com.
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