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Interview with Nelly By Allen Gordon I was handed your demo when I was trekking through St. Louis and dug it, but stopped writing about the time you signed. I never had the opportunity to ask how this whole thing got started. When we [St.
Lunatics] first put out the single, "Gimme Whatchu Got," we
had a plan with that. Unfortunately, everybody didn’t follow the
plan. The production company we were with didn’t participate in our
original plan. We took the single to the radio station with the album
in our hand begging for them to play this. We were an underground group
and number one when the song was being played in our own city. People
loved it, the radio loved it--now what we needed was a follow up singl Did you think it would have become the phenomenon it has the last two years? I believed it. We all believed it. No way, not nine million strong. You sold more albums and singles with no marketing or promotion other than the music and word of mouth. Universal didn’t know what hit them until about three million strong. You could believe you were the best journalist in the world and wanted to write books or do documentaries all your life, and when you finally get to do it and have some success, what are you going to say when you are asked the same question? You always believed you would do it, but maybe not the level of attention. You know your work, what you put into it and that somebody somewhere would enjoy what you produced. No matter how small or large, you knew that some shared your love for what you were doing. That’s how I looked at it. I knew Country Grammar was going to be a good album and that someone out there would like it. We just didn’t expect it would be nine million someones (sic). We adapted though. How have you adapted from the street to pop star? You’ve seen Todd Bridges. I’ve
adapted my whole life. I’ve lived with everybody on both sides of
my family. I’ve been to eight different schools and kicked There was a long time between St. Louis pioneers JCD and Sylk Smoove to the coming of the Lunatics. Was the buzz in St. Louis as big for them in their day as it was for you all? JCD and the BullDawgs. That was the Dawg Pound. I think Sylk Smoove got a lot of love as a local act out there on a major label. Not to the extent that we have it because now you have every nationality involved, the mayor watches BET and MTV, and there is so much more media. Sylk Smoove came up in a different time and he was the man. Sylk did real good. We thought Sylk was from Los Angeles at first. A lot of people not from L.A. or NY didn’t want to say their hometown at first for whatever reason. Sylk moved out there to do his album and Domino moved and was claiming Long Beach. We didn’t know he was from the Lou. Now that St. Louis has a name as far as Hip Hop, it’s cool to reclaim where you from I guess. To be perfectly honest it’s like that with a lot of places. When Bone blew up everybody living somewhere else was from Cleveland. When 3-6 Mafia blew up they folks was from Memphis. Now Petey Pablo doing his thing and you got people saying they from North Carolina and never claimed it before. I know some people have to go to New York or Los Angeles to make their dreams happen, but that’s just how they do. My thing is, do it like the Lady of Rage. She was on Death Row and living in LA when that ship was running things. She claimed up front that she was Virginia. She didn’t jump on Virginia after Mad Skillz made his name or Timbaland and Missy made their impact. She said Virginia from day one and was proud. Music coming from different places and innovating music is about the only thing keeping me musically interested. That’s the hot shit now. Different shit. People won’t be satisfied until somebody hot is coming out of South Dakota or the first rapper from the ghettos of Maine or New Hampshire blow up. How did St. Louis respond to "Country Grammar" before you signed? Did people know that a new sound was coming out of their backyard or did you just get by on a few Battle of the Beats wins? When we first did the song "Country Grammar" it was called "Hot Shit." We finished that song in the studio on a Saturday night. As soon as we finished we went straight over to East St. Louis to this club called Club Casino–the first people to ever play this muthafuckin song. We gave it to this DJ named Doug E Doug, but we renamed him DJ 618 (which he goes by now), and he put it on and people stopped dancing. People were listening, but it didn’t clear the floor. Usually when you put on a new song nobody has heard the floor clears, but this song was our tempo and it was some banging ass shit. Dirty played the song again and it was on. Funny thing is, when we first gave it to him, he listened to it first in his headphones while he was spinning, and his facial expression said it all. He knew we had some hot shit, which was the name of that song. That song was unmixed and unmastered, and we sold that CD out of the trunk in front of every club. That CD was like money. If we had 20 of those CDs, that was a good $200 right there. That song was the most requested song on the radio for several weeks. Did you know that your sound was that much different? That people were going to feel that song and the hook? You wanted to do something different. When Death Row took over for the years that they had it, they brought a new sound to the game. When No Limit took over for the years that they had it, they brought a new sound to the game. Bone same thing. As an aspiring artist you have to be aware of what is happening on some level or just live in a vacuum. Every time there is a national takeover there is a new sound. True enough marketing, promotion and the industry mechanics have a lot to do with exposure, but a new sound is still the bottom line. It ain’t about lyrics or flows or how you look, it’s a new sound and that is the defining factor. Beats are a must and I think that’s why many good lyricists get mad at you or any rapper that they feel is elementary to them. There are plenty of tight MC’s who have never been heard of. It’s about that sound. From all the stuff that I’ve read, interviews I watched and people I have talked with, when they speak of Hip Hop music in the early days it was all about the DJ. The DJ was the source of the sound. The DJ made bodies move, heads nod and so forth. So when cats get mad at the new sound, they get mad at the MC or rapper, not realizing that it’s the sound that is causing the craze. Dr. Dre is Dr. Dre because of the sound he keeps bringing. You may remember his raps, but you never forget his music. Some people just want to party. Some people are just beat junkies. Some people are really into the lyrics but unfortunately, those aren’t the majority of record buyers. I always tell cats to listen to your album closely when they diss a Nelly song. I don’t think cats really listen too much anymore. You have lyrics, punch-lines, flows and the catchiest songs in since "Rapper’s Delight." It bothers me that people diss this, but still talk about Special Ed, Biz Markie like what you are doing is so foreign. The game is so old now that there is nothing that an MC can say today that hasn’t already been said. Everybody has already rapped about money, girls, cars, jewelry, the struggle, personal problems, education, religion. Whatever it is you want to talk about, it’s been said before, so now it’s all about how you are going to say it. How you are going to bring it to people’s attention. People will never stop talking about this stuff because it will never end. I think the obsession with what we rap about may be much, but it won’t end. If an artist like Dana Dane recorded 10 albums in his career, how much would the subject matter differ from album to album? Not much, but his styles, flows and creative presentation would change and so would the music, which is what makes things different. Look at some of the great artists of all time Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith or Al Green. Take their classic albums and delete the musical aspect and you have lyrics about: love, heartbreak, social commentary about that period of time, religious ideology, sex, and so on. Go back further you find it in Blues, Jazz, Country, Celtic, and so on. That’s what I mean. Every generation has to have their Doug E Fresh, Slick Rick and so on. Not calling you that, but you see where I’m going with this. It’s like a circle. One big cycle that will never end. So, the next muthafucka who comes out with a hot sound will have the attention. That’s all it is. Look at how people get put on today and ask yourself how you came about buying that album, or how you were moved by that artist. Everybody who can spit a hot 16 bars can’t make a hot song. Not everyone who can write a hot song can write a hot album. Not everybody who can make a hot album can do it that whole process over again. You need all that shit to make this art work for you as a source of income. Some people are just starting to figure it out. Everybody hasn’t figured that out yet. When people figure this out their careers may last a bit longer. Look at LL Cool J. No matter who the top producers are as far as the art or commerce side of this game, he can blend into the situation and make it hot for him. You have to respect that. You have to figure it out. That’s interesting that you say that. Plenty of good MC’s just can’t write good songs or make records. You can be the tightest lyricist on the face of this planet and can’t get any recognition. Plenty of people go out and compete in a freestyle battle. There are cats out there that could kill me in a freestyle battle and I would give them respect. Respect is respect. Now when you look at me I have to ask, can you do a song? An album? That’s the next step up. You may find one percent of MC’s or rappers who enter freestyle battles of whatever aren’t looking for a record deal or some way to finance an independent release. So anyone criticizing me, really has the same aspirations. If you have a cat who is a school teacher full time, and cuts an album on the side, I respect that. But when that cat starts complaining about Nelly, Outkast or Jay Z because that’s who is on TV or the radio and he’s not--that was his career decision. This is why a lot of people need hot producers. They need someone to create a hot beat and hot hook for them. Some people need that in order for them to be successful. We, the St. Lunatics, feel we don’t need that. We can take a no-name producer who we grew up with and put together a song that we think is hot. This is what prompted your song "Number 1." You’re not saying you are the best, just at the top of the hill. If an artist has to call himself the best, he probably the only one calling himself that. If they have to say it themselves, they must not hear it enough from other people. There is nothing wrong with saying, "O.K., I’m winning right now." Nothing wrong with saying, "Hell, yeah nigga you’re number one right now. Do your thing." But you never have to say you are the best. People will say that for you if you really are. But really all that shit is irrelevant. RUN DMC is the best, but so is EPMD and Slick Rick, Public Enemy, NWA, Outkast, Wu Tang, Scarface and so on. It doesn’t really matter. Do what you do when you have the opportunity to do it and make your mark. Everybody is going to be something to someone, great, good and bad. To me, that song doesn’t fit the Training Day film. Did they let you see the film before you made it? Yeah, I had a chance to see the movie before the jump off took place. I wanted to do something for my dirty, Denzel, and make a tight song that reflected his character in the film. I could have done a song with Denzel rolling in Monte Carlo, but I wanted to make a hot song. I think MC Eiht set the mark on songs like that when he did "Str-eiht Up Menace." I wanted to do a song that would bang regardless if people like the movie or not. But the movie was hot and my song was able to help the soundtrack. Aside from N’Sync and Jagged Edge, you haven’t done the 1,000 guest appearances since you are hot. Is that by choice? Don’t get me wrong, I would like to work with other people, but I don’t do a lot of guest appearances. For my third album, I’m thinking of doing nothing but collaborations. Something different from the top rock act to the most grimy underground rapper who may not have a deal. That’s how I would like to run it down. But really, I just want to establish us, the St. Lunatics. Let’s establish the group and the individuals that make up the St. Lunatics–Nelly, Ali, Murph, Kijuan, Slo Down. I think that’s what we did on this first couple of albums, and we did it on our own. Now we can go kick it with everybody else. We don’t have to appear on someone else’s album that sold three million to get noticed. Once you do it on your own, ain’t nothing than can kick from up under you. How many artists can we name that have no career, commercial or independent, because they tried to make their name off of riding the coattails of somebody out there? It’s not funny, but that’s the reality of standing on someone else’s shoulders. You’ve seen what happened to the relationships established at Death Row and to groups like NWA and the Fugees. How will the Lunatics avoid fighting and breaking up when money, stardom and outsiders linger around? I think it’s different for us because we are close. You hear other people say that, but you find out years later that they weren’t that close. After it’s all over, you hear them tell the truth about, "Man, I really didn’t know that nigga. I just met him before we got the deal." But in the interviews, niggas grew up in the same baby crib or was on the same Pop Warner team. Almost everybody who we employed has been someone who has been with us. As we grow we employ more people, but we ain’t here to do no Hammer. We don’t have a $500,000 payroll every month. Family and friends are the ones you have to watch. I know pro ball players whose parents were never around until they signed on the dotted line. Now every relative comes for a handout. A lot of us came up not having shit. We may have seen $1,000 every six months, to now it’s far more than that. We have family members that would break their necks to make $1,000 a month. If your uncle comes to you and gives you $100 out of the blue for no reason, you happy as fuck. But, if that same uncle won a ten million dollar lottery, and gave you $100 out of the blue, some people would look at you like you should have gave them a little bit more based on what you got. You can’t give me four or five hundred? That’s a fucked up mentality. Ain’t nobody gave me shit, so I’m definitely not giving away shit, but I will let someone work for it. I’ll let them work like a muthafucka. People come up asking for loans and gift money, and I’ll try to find a job they can do if I’m able. I’d rather give somebody the means to earn it than just give it. That’s all you can ask for. If I just gave it away, people would always expect that. No hand outs. So there won’t be any whispering going on the outside. That’s why we all stick together. We all know the value of what we are doing. That’s why we are so hard on people trying to come into our circle. When all that whispering goes on we bring everybody to the table to confront the issue. Ain’t no privacy except amongst ourselves. We handle our own affairs. We have our own system and we don’t need nobody on the outside telling us what the hell is going on, because we all came up together. We love each other, but we ain’t fools. Pride can be a great thing, and pride can also destroy you. There are plenty of homeless people with pride. There are plenty of people in jail with pride. There are plenty of dead people with pride. Plenty. People will act like there are some things they won’t do, but what about the things they did to get them where they are at. I won’t work for the white man, but I’ll do an armed robbery and go to jail to work for the white man with no freedom. I won’t fuck with no square, good-hearted nigga, but I’ll fuck with the neglectful abusive nigga. People have to figure out what works best for them and then move along in life. Let’s talk about videos. I was impressed that you were able to get so much play without special effects and spending loads of money you’ll never recoup. All the videos were memorable and got more play than others. Missy, Busta and other cats spend enormous amounts… Missy and Busta are doing videos in their creative way. The special effects of their videos are off the chain and they are going to win a MTV video award every year because of it. It all comes down to what works for you. Let’s go through the break-though videos and tell me what was going on with planning them. 1) "Country Grammar" was flat out about introducing St Louis. We threw a big ass block party, get all the people we know who wanted to be in the video, all the chicks that we knew, all that. We didn’t have any auditions for the finest chicks or fly in models, all those females were home grown St. Louis women. 2) "Midwest Swing" was about showing more of St. Louis, but also it was about introducing the group. After that video you got some of each Lunatic members personality. So now you can put faces to voices of that song you were listening to on the radio or when you purchased the CD. This is the whole St. Lunatic crew. You already heard how I like St. Louis on "Country Grammar," now listen to how the other members love St. Louis and how they get down. Mark Klasfield the director brought about the vision of showing "Midwest Swing" as a product. St. Louis produces, believe that. From the old folks in the shoe shine parlor to baby mamas washing clothes, this Midwest swing is about our lives and livelihood. We swinging no matter what. 3) "E.I." is just about what’s popping tonight. I got the hook when I listened to beat. It seemed a little wild when I was explaining it to my peoples, but when that beat kicks in it’s popping tonight. Jay E (Jason Epperson) had that beat for a long time and he had been trying to sell it, but nobody wanted it. He was also doing his work with other local rappers, but nobody liked the beat. Hold up! Cat’s in St. Louis heard that beat and passed on it? Shock G and Money B told me it was the same thing with "I Get Around." Nobody wanted to take it, then Pac heard it, and the rest is history. Didn’t nobody hear the beat like I heard it. When I heard it I was like, "Nobody wants this? OK." Even though that is not the most popular song as far as radio play or single sales, "E.I." was the song that got the biggest response every show we did. Japan, Australia, all over the U.S. it didn’t matter. That beat was around for a long time before I got a hold of it. And that video is just about going from party to party and having a good time. That’s what we do on some nights when we are trying to find out what’s popping. They are memorable videos, but you realize that you outplayed all the big budget players? That is incredible. We’re new artists and we are working with a small budget, so we don’t have huge videos. It would be nice to imagine what kind of video I could do with special effects. I wouldn’t try to do no shit like me walking on the moon or anything like that. But to add a little something to your portfolio is cool. You have to grow in some respects, because people don’t want to see you played out. They want to see something new and something familiar. I wouldn’t want to do crazy million-dollar budget video like Puffy or Busta unless I had it like that. If I had that dough and didn’t need to look back and be mad at spending it, then I would be cool with it. That’s why I like Mark Klasfield. He has a look about his work that’s hard to explain. He has a look that makes images seem real life, no grainy, digital or plain Kodak looking. It’s real crisp and sharp. Back to videos, "Batter Up." 4) "Batter Up" is really about girls. If you listen you can catch the song behind the song. We wanted to make a real hot and sexy baseball game with a little comedy. I’m a fan of baseball and I wanted to see us playing baseball the Lunatic way. Our rules our way. So we got a regular baseball team against the Lunatics and some very beautiful women. And we won the game. Me and Ali dressed up as the two white commentators and had fun with that. Having George Jefferson in the video was off the hook. That was big for us. I didn’t think we were gonna be able to get him, but when we did. . .That video was just about it being our turn at bat. St. Louis was in the batter’s box and we were swinging for the fences. No outs so far and we’re batting around the lineup now. "Batter Up" was originally a Lunatic song and it was kind of funny to us that this song and "Country Grammar" got so much attention, because these are the songs on the demo we were shopping. You know because you had a copy, nobody we sent that demo to was trying to listen to us Life is problem solving. All day every day, life is nothing but making choices. Good or bad you have to flip it and that’s what I learned. Otherwise time is wasting. If you make a bad choice, how are you going to flip that situation to make it better. You have to have that belief in yourself that you can make that happen. It was too new, but new music is what moves things. It was a catch 22, but we can’t be mad. They set us up for that. When Cash Money blew the roof off with Juvenile’s 400 Degreez, then B.G., Hot Boyz and Wayne--that put us in a position where labels was looking for something they thought was similar, but ended up getting something totally different. Universal was into breaking new stuff at that point, they were having success and we definitely have to thank Cash Money for that. They came in the game hot as hell with a new sound, after tearing up New Orleans for seven years independently. They opened it up for a lot of places, like Master P did before them, Eightball & MJG, E-40, Bone, Outkast, Rap-A-Lot, Ruthless and Eazy E…you know the story. Can Nellyville keep you on the same level tha Country Grammar put you? How can you keep the public’s interest this year and in years to come? We know what is expected of us and we can only do what we do. We are sticking with our plan the way we want to do it. No guest appearances from the rapper of the month or producer of the month. Nellyville is a product of what I wanted. Whatever the haters didn’t like, I did more of it. If they said I was too melodic, I got more melodic. I know the large majority of my fan base is women and children. A large majority of the album buying public is women and children. So I am well aware of that and know what my plan is for making my music. Really, the more popular Country Grammar became, the more hate came my way. I realize where it came from and why, and I just take it for what it is. When people stop buying what we do, then we will reassess what we do. I know I may sell far less units than last time, and I know that I may sell far more. My concern is to do a good album and let it do what it does. I know my album is good, you heard it and liked it, so I’m sure people who like the last album will be looking forward to what the Lunatics have planned.
Put somewhere or edit some In Washington DC on a promo tour. That’s pretty admirable for a cat who just finished performing in arenas. I’m not here to lose money. At some point, starting a new career or re-generating a career after some time off–a promotional tour is necessary. At first we, meaning the St. Lunatics and myself, sank every dime of profit into getting across the country to be visible to the fans besides the videos. That’s what the promo tours were about, pushing the record, because we didn’t know what the video and records were doing. People at home called and told us, but we’re on the road so we were a bit detached. Do you give the same energy and showmanship on a promo tour? Without a doubt. Even on a promo tour, you want to put on the best show possible, and at the same time it’s also a business. Right now we’re on the road promoting the St. Lunatics album, Ali’s solo album, and my new album Nellyville. I’m only doing two new songs because it’s more about Ali and us as the Lunatics. We’re spending money on the hopes of making more money, so it’s a thin line. A real balancing of finances to do this, but the upside is that you can go home and pay the bills. How do you know whether you are giving a good show or people are just hyped about their favorite song like in a club? I think a person who can have the crowd hyped 15 minutes before you even hit the stage, really has something special. That anticipation means you are doing something right as an artist. Look at Michael Jackson, you have fans passing out while standing in line. That’s powerful, overwhelming. In Hip Hop you have that kind of experience with RUN DMC, Puffy, Missy, Busta Rhymes and Mystikal. Especially Mystikal because I think he gets a bad rap on his shows, but dirty puts on a damn good performance. He gets down. If you can have the stretches in your show where every song that you do the crowd is into it, instead of people sighing wondering when the artist is going to perform the only song they like, then that’s special. What show did you learn the most from while being a fan? I think I earned a lot of respect from the Bad Boy tour in 1997 when Puff had No Way Out and Mase was still down. St. Louis was really into the West Coast. It was all about Pac, Death Row, E-40, Too Short and the all the West Coast music. When Puff came through St. Louis and put that show on, it was bananas. The showmanship, the stage presence–that man put on a production. By the time he left the stage after doing "I’ll be Missing You," he had grown ass niggas walking out of the arena saying, "that dude Puffy is alright." People went out and bought albums after that. That’s the experience we want people to have when we do a show. So this tour is more about Ali and the St. Lunatics than your new album Nellyville? More or less. The St. Lunatic album Free City is almost double platinum, and we did that off of one single, "Midwest Swing". We didn’t really get to press the issue with that album, like we felt should have been done. As a group we should have been pressing that issue. So to sell that many records off that single and the momentum of my album, just think if we had pushed Free City like we wanted. No telling how much more we could have sold. When we do shows now and people hear the songs, folk go out a buy that album. So I’ll never knock a promo tour, it helps what you are doing currently as well as the past projects if you really leave an impression on people. What are you doing on this tour that you learned about from previous shows? We’re just trying to improve our stage presence. The other thing is, whatever we wore during the show may end up in the audience before our performance is over. Shoes, a hat, a Vokal sweater or vest, anything. Well, unless we only have one or it’s a one of a kind item. You know how it was, when RUN DMC would do a show and throw out some gear into the crowd or posters, whatever. That’s part of the fan experience and I don’t want to cheat anybody out of that when we visit a city. |
BG |
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and an album. Unfortunately, we had some dick-head people around us who
were playing us like we’re just dumb, "Well the single has the
span of nine months…" Nine months!? You can’t be serious!
We’ll be forgotten in nine months. Back when Doug E Fresh and UTFO
put out records, you could listen to "The Show" or "Roxanne
Roxanne" for nine months, but not in this day and age. No single
could last that long. So that fucked up our dreams at that point and it
just didn’t work out. So we had to recoup.
out
of four and been to another four moving around. I lived with other people
more than I have lived with my mother and father. I was born in Texas,
then I moved to Spain–this was when my parents were still together
and my Ol’ Man was in the Air Force. Then we finally made it to St.
Louis where they are originally from. Then they got divorced when I was
six, and then money wasn’t right. Court’s then wasn’t like
they are now, so there wasn’t no child support. That’s why it’s
not hard for me to pack up and bounce, I’ve always done it. The only
thing that is hard about it is that I have a family, and you miss your
people when you hit the road for 30 days at a clip. But we get used to
it. It’s a job and therefore we know what must be done.