VICIOUS CIRCLE
Interview by Rick Thorne. Photo by Brian Bartholomew
From Murder Dog Vol 9 #2 (2002)
How did you get down with Wolftown Recordings?
10Shott: Basically just sittin' in the flats where Size8 grew up, sittin'
on the stairs pissin' off the fuckin' tennants. We used to just smoke
a likkle draw, a likkle weed, rap and freestyle and beatbox. Tricksta
and Late used to live on the tenth floor, we never knew them 'coz they'd
just moved in. One day we were just rappin' on the stairs and them
mans just walked past and they heard it basically and said 'yeah, that's
sounds good'. So we go up to Tricksta's house, he says 'yeah, come
up to our house', burn a tree, get the mic out and start rappin' and
showin' what we got. Basically we were on jungle, jungle music which
is like fuckin' the English sort of hard Dirty South, y'get me. Just
like pure gangsta shit, when ya chattin' on jungle. So that's what
we were sorta on, I was always on hip-hop, we always loved hip-hop
but we just showed them our style as well and they said 'yeah, yeah
just mix it into a hip-hop sorta thing and you'll get yourself out
of 
it basically' which is where we've come from. 'Coz I'm listenin'
to hip-hop, if I was first ever to go on the mic after hip-hop I'd
probably rap what I've heard, which is like Nas and whoever y'get me?
But we get to put ourself into hip-hop, it's a different sort of hip-hop
because obviously a different country comes with different music.
So you learnt your craft doin' jungle emceeing?
10Shott: Yeah we was emceein' to it, every club we used to go to just
get on the mic and just start emceein' to jungle basically.
Size8: We was emceeing to jungle first but I never really bought jungle
records. I always bought hip-hop records.
10Shott: Yeah all the time, I've never bought jungle, it was just sort
of that was the vibe, that was the trend. It was always on the radio
stations and you get people that was on jungle dissin' people.
Was that just freestyling?
10Shott: Yeah, yeah it was no written. No one ever wrote lyrics in jungle.
How long is this going back?
10Shott: 1994. Must've been like 14, 13. That's when we were gettin'
into jungle nice n' tight n' ting.
Are you both from the same area in Wolverhampton?
Size8: He used to live around the corner from where me and Tricksta lived
in the flats. Tricksta was on the tenth floor and basically we used to
just hang out there and do freestyle tapes and then it transpired into
a mix-tape thing what he sold in town, in the local record shop and then
it turned into doin' some links and music and recording.
Were Late and Tricksta already making music?
10Shott: They were already in the middle of doing the Villains album
when we met them so they got us just in time to feature on a track. Size8
featured on a track and I featured on a track and that was the first
thing we ever spat on.
Size8: That was recording with IMD that was mostly in Birmingham so that
was kinda like the first studio we used. Then we hooked up with Pez.
What were you doing before you got into music?
10Shott: Basically life was less cool. We tried college but basically
all college was was just phone ringin' in class and it's like someone
wants some weed. Y'know what I mean, ya in college and ya phone's ringin'
and we're just like can I go to the toilet just to go meet him in the
corridor, come back. It didn't last, we didn't stick with college so
then after that just made a little hustle, made some money that way for
a couple of years.
Were you making enough to live off?
10Shott: Yeah that and signin' on was basically how I was livin'. It
was comfortable but then obviously we meet up with Tricksta and man's
given us a likkle vision and something to go towards.
Are you both from West Indian families?
Size8: My family's West Indian, my grandparents come from Jamaica. They
come over here and they had children already which wasn't my mother,
it was like my mum's older brothers and they come over. But they built
up a little house and a little job 'til they were stable then they sent
for their kids, brought over their children that they had in Jamaica.
When they come here they just made a life for themselves and then my
mum was born later on in England so my mum's English really. My parents
are English but they come from Jamaican heritage.
10Shott: Me being mixed race it's like goin' to school you get different
ways of kids comin' up to you. I've had white best friends, I've had
an Indian best friend, I've had a black best friend. Now I roll with
mainly black people.
Size8: There's a lot of Jamaicans come over here in like the '50s and
'60s.
10Shott: The black people over England are all Jamaican English. So it's
like livin' in my area, it's all black people. Our school was at least
80 percent black.
Is there a big black population in Wolverhampton?
10Shott: In our area, Whitmore-Renes is probably the biggest. There's
two main areas of mixed culture in Wolverhampton, there's one called
Whitmore-Renes and Heath Town. Heath Town's full of black people, Whitmore-Renes
full of black people but none of them get on. Basically there's a drug
rival war goin' right now with these two. It's a small town, everyone
knows what you did last summer basically. It's only just become a city,
it's that small. City centre's small too, it's still an up and coming
town.
What rappers were you checking for when you started rhyming?
10Shott: I like Redman, he was one of the first rappers. Then Wu-Tang
Clan, I loved Cypress Hill at one point as well back in those days. And
then Snoop Dogg bust on the scene.
Size8: Biggie Smalls was a big influence. He's just that talented lyrically.
You're just tryna portray it in your own sort of way. Rappers that are
now mainstream whereas back then, they were just comin' up. They were
influences but they're American and they're chattin' what they go through
and basically what you do is portray it in your own way and where you
come from and talk about what's real to you, what's happened in your
life. Just keep it real basically, that's what we learnt off them people.
I hear a lot of ragga influence in your rhymes too.
10Shott: Yeah, yeah. When I come on the mic the sorta style I try and
pick up is laidback. I am laidback and when I chat on the streets that's
the way I like to rap, y'get me, when I talk with my bredrins. I like
to rap exactly the same way as I talk so when you hear me rappin', a
bit of ragga is brought in there because sometimes you have to feel that
'coz I will drop a bit of ragga on the streets y'know what I'm sayin'?
Size8: I try and keep it clear so you can understand every word. Try
and keep the flows tight, try and make up your own flows.
What topics are you covering on your album Bagged Out?
10Shott: On 'Burglars', I read one day in the newspapers this guy's gettin'
sent down for protecting his home from a burglar he killed and he's getting
done for like manslaughter and he's gettin' thrown in jail and I thought,
'Yo, if anyone comes in my house he's gettin' it!' So he comes up with
the idea to come in and be the burglar. I got a keyboard now so I'd already
made the rhythm and I thought that'd go with it cool. I prefer to make
a rhythm first, get with the rhythm and work with the rhythm. I've only
made a couple of tracks where Tricksta's had my acapella and built a
beat round it. I think I work better workin' with the beat 'coz when
Tricksta's made the beat I think 'oh shit I'd like to have said that
over that part of rhythm.'
10Shott: 'Told You', that's our single. That was about how kids are goin'
on. For the kids in our school it was like 'fuck education 'coz when
I leave here I've got a man givin' me a phone and a job, y'get what I'm
sayin'? So it was straight fuckin' dealin' rocks or whatever he's gonna
juggle and I know so many kids now, that's what they believe in. Fuck
this, why do I need education, I wanna lick shots and live fatter than
you when you're gonna be studying for five years, y'get me?
Size8: That's the mentality of kids on the street.
What do you think about that?
10Shott: It goes back to the track 'School Daze'. Our school, you go
to our school, my teacher, this is how she dealt with us. There was half
the class which was black, always laughin' and she didn't try and discipline
us, she'd turn her face to the white lot and say 'I'm not going to teach
you lot' and she'd teach the others. So us lot would just do nothing.
That was how our school was, to tell you the truth our school was shit.
They've got bars and cameras on everything now, straight after we left.
But when we were there it was fuckin' so loose. I used to write lyrics
in class and she used to say 'look, if you're not gonna learn in my class
write ya little poems' 'coz she knew what I used to do, just write all
the time.
What does your album title Bagged Out mean?
Size8: Bagged Out is goin' back to what we used to do.
10Shott: If I say to him 'yo wah gwarn, ya got the weed bagged out?'
Basically when you're weed is bagged out you're ready to sell that. You
can be like 'wait there I'm baggin' it out', it's like the whole system
y'get me?
Size8: When the whole product is all bagged out and ready to go.
10Shott: You can never have a big stash and say 'yeah yeah, I'll just
rip you a piece off' y'get me. You have to wait at least three hours.
Do you get some good weed up here?
10Shott: Yeah yeah, there's some good shit that comes through man. Skunk
is the main, that's what I like and then there's high grade. The prices
over here are different to America. The prices over here is like £35
(roughly $50) for an eighth of an ounce, fuckin' high grade. That's like
the top shit though, puts skunk to shame basically. Then you got ya skunk
which ranges from £20-£25 (roughly $30-$35) for an eighth. £25 you're
lookin' at a good fuckin' eighth of fuckin' good skunk really.
The production on your album is noticeably different from the Villains’
album.
10Shott: We changed producers. Tricksta was doin' it with IMD and then
he switched over to work with Pez. And then Tricksta's like feel these
beats and we're like well, give us this sorta feel and we had little
ideas basically and put our own flavors in.
Size8: It's a lot of different flavors on that album, we was just tryna
like cover all sorts of different tracks 'coz it's the first album. We
tried to make it as collective as possible but it's got a lot of different
flavors on there. This next Vicious Circle album should really show what
we're doin'.
People really like the first one though.
Size8: People like the first one, we all like the first one, we've got
no regrets but we're finding ourselves a bit more as well.
When will the next one be dropping?
Size8: We got a couple of people droppin’ albums first, High Timez is
droppin’ an album and Conman’s droppin’ an EP, so it’ll be sometime next
year.
Do you get support from the radio out here?
10Shott: Westwood's played our shit a couple of times. Basically he runs
the hip-hop in England. The only international hip-hop that you get to
hear in England is Westwood and if he's not on it no one's gonna hear
what's comin' to England basically.
Size8: Two, three million listeners, that's basically the main source
of hip-hop on the radio.
10Shott: And I'd say 95 percent of it's all American. People have also
come up to us and said 'I've seen your video, it's been played on MTV'.
I haven't even seen it played yet because they haven't put it on rotation
but it's been played a good few times and on 'Yo! MTV Raps' as well.
Size8: Wonder Twinz were givin' us some love on some New York mix-shows
and DJ Noize in New York as well.
Where are you planning to take this shit?
10Shott: I wanna see us so we can get tight on this shit and wake up
in the morning when you got that idea and not forget it by the time you've
see your producer basically. I wanna have my own shit in my own house,
build my own shit. What I'm workin' on now is gettin' a little bit of
money together and startin' my own little studio. And then just basically
tryin' my hardest in this music thing, whatever I can get out of this
music industry 'coz that's what I love.
Size8: My goals are to make sure that we put out quality hip-hop. Just
keep the product quality, that's my only aim. To make sure that Vicious
Circle, Wolftown, whatever I'm on, make sure that when that goes out
you feel that it's strong enough to sell. Otherwise there's no point
really.
