Paris
Interview by Black Dog Bone
Continued from Murder Dog vol 16 #1
When you first came out there was an anger and intensity in you that
make a big impression. Do you still feel that way when you do your music
or have you changed? It’s been a while.
It’s been a while, but the anger comes across now even more focused because
things are shittier than they’ve ever been. When I first started a lot
of the anger I had was a reflection of what I was soaking up at the time.
It was a reflection of me being a member of the Nation of Islam, and
the Gulf War, things like that were making me angry. But I wasn’t as
politically aware then as I am now. And I wasn’t as well travelled as
I am now. As time goes on, the more you learn and experience, I think
it’s natural to become more left-leaning. It’s natural to become more
angry about what’s going on, not only in our communities but globally.
The more you learn the more unbearable the situation is, because things
are so fucked up and unequal. When I first started the murder rate wasn’t
out of control like it is in Oakland and Richmond and every other Black
community nationwide. When I first started we weren’t in all of these
ridiculous wars like we are. And the government was not so overtly corrupt
as they are now. It’s so blatant and in-your-face that you have to respond
to it if you know better. I know better, and the material that I make
speaks to people who know better or it speaks to people who are receptive
to something other than what they get on Fox or in mainstream Rap music.
I like to keep it cracking like that.
When I talk to artists and poets who are outside of the Rap scene they
always wonder why all of these talented and creative rappers seem to
talk about nothing but money and consumerism. They would like to see
this creative energy go into something more meaningful. How would you
answer that question?
A lot of it has to do with socialization. A lot of times we simply act
the way we’re expected to act. When a lot of people talk about Black
youth they don’t have high expectations. When most people think of Black
youth they automatically think of ignorance and they think of violence.
A lot of times young people just fall into that stereotype. They just
want to act out, they want to be the biggest and the baddest. They want
to fit the bill of what society expects of them. A lot of that has to
do with entertainment because entertainment is what raises kids at this
time. It’s not parents, it’s not teachers, it’s not politicians, it’s
entertainers. A lot of kids know all the lyrics of the songs on the radio,
but they don’t know shit about what’s going on in the world. And what’s
on the radio or TV is controlled by mega corporations—corporations dictate
Black culture now. Corporations are the ones who empower certain artists
to be able to be heard in every neighborhood globally. If you’re on Def
Jam or something like that, you know Ludacris is gonna be on the radio
everywhere. Or Mariah or whoever, these artists are gonna be on every
station in every city around the world. You will hear the same song over
and over again. If you’re in that position that makes you a tastemaker.
You are dictating what the streets listen to. A lot of times the labels
say they’re just responding to what the street wants. That’s bullshit,
they dictate what the street wants. The street picks and chooses
from what is presented. Kids wouldn’t even know about shit if they didn’t
hear it on the radio or see it on TV. If I got a beef with anybody it’s
with labels that don’t provide balance in our communities. Who don’t
provide the positive along with the negative. They don’t provide protest
music along with Gangsta Rap. That’s why I have an issue with labels.
I don’t have an issue with artists because most artists don’t know shit.
I don’t look for the Ying Yang Twins to talk about politics, I know that’s
beyond the reach of a lot of people. I do fault the fact that there’s
no balance. A lot of people think that I don’t like Gangsta Rap, but
I do. I just want more balance. I don’t want everything out there to
be like me either. I don’t want to hear a hundred artists just like me
on the radio, I think there should be balance. There was balance in Hip
Hop at one point in time. When I started out there was balance where
you could hear me, you could hear Too Short, you could hear Digital Underground.
All of these different artists represented something different, but we
were all on the radio and we could all go on the road together.
Hip Hop has been divided into so many different categories. We’ve all
been separated.
Right. And all you get from the media right now is artificially young
and artificially dumb.
Music is so powerful and influential. When you look at the ancient cultures
of the world the way they taught the youth was through song. Even at
this time we look to music for guidance and inspiration.
That’s exactly right. So you know the effect that entertainment has on
people over time. Songs that are life affirming and songs that guide
people in a positive direction, we’ve seen the effects that that type
of material has on people. And we’ve also seen the effects that negativity
has on people. A lot of the shit, for example on BET, is very detrimental
to the Black community. But they don’t seem to give a fuck. Rather than
complain about what Clear Channel is doing and rather than complain about
Radio One and BET, rather than complain, I started Guerrilla Funk. Guerrilla
Funk was really set up to put out “Sonic Jihad” my last record after
9-11, because nobody was puttin out protest music after 9-11. All of
these artists that represented my point of view started getting dropped
from labels. It wasn’t just Hip Hop—it was me, it was Dead Prez, it was
the Dixie Chicks, Rage Against the Machine, a lot of artists got dropped.
I decided that something had to be put in place to empower artists that
have something to say in this environment where everything seems to be
propaganda. Everything we see is pro-America. So Guerrilla Funk started
and we did well. I did a project with Public Enemy and started putting
things together. That’s what lead to the deal with Fontana/Universal.
I heard you’re going to put out a new album from Conscious Daughters?
Conscious Daughters comes out in 2009. Their album’s called “The Nutcracker
Suite” and it’s just about finished now.
I’m excited to hear what they’re doing after this long silence.
Absolutely. I bet you can’t tell me one female group that’s out right
now. Female artists are rare in Hip Hop, more so female groups. It’s
important to have the female point of view presented in Hip Hop. Conscious
Daughters are out, I’ve got George Clinton coming out. I’ve got compilation
projects and several movies coming out that have Erykah Badu, The Coup,
Dixie Chicks and a bunch of folks coming out.
I heard you had a project underway with Erykah Badu. What is that?
It’s the movie called “Sounds Like a Revolution”. What I do is get in
contact with film companies that have films in the works but don’t have
the funding to complete them. As long as the films fit with what Guerrilla
Funk represents then it makes sense to me cause I’m not starting to make
a film from scratch. And I already know what I’m getting into because
I can see the work that’s been done thus far. They know they’re getting
with a reputable company with good distribution.
When you travel and move around in the industry do you come across many
artists doing something similar to what you’re doing?
There’s plenty of artists like me—Michael Franti, Dead Prez, T-K.A.S.H.,
X-Clan, Jill Scott and Erykah Badu—there’s a lot of people out there
that represent a political sensibility, but they don’t usually get shine.
Corporations want music out there that’s homogenized that will appeal
to as many people as possible. I understand that, they want to sell you
burgers and Nikes and Toyotas and shit like that with Hip Hop. I understand
that, but that’s not what I do. I personally feel that Hip Hop is most
effective when it’s angry. I want to make the music that’s gonna kick
you out of step. And I want the things I talk about to be relevant to
the times.
You have a deep understanding current politics and the history of this
civilization. Do you ever look beyond that into the world of our ancestors?
There’s so much we can learn from tribal people of the world and from
connecting with ancient cultures that existed before civilization. There’s
so much wisdom we can benefit from—the way people were living with nature,
the way they raised their children, the importance of community, and
the spiritual aspects with shamanism. When are Black people in America
going to connect with Africa?
As the consciousness and social awareness keeps elevating, I’m sure that
a reconnection with Africa will come into play. Right now, I can’t speak
for other Black people around the world, but for me the condition of
Black people in America is of paramount concern. That’s what I’m most
concerned with right now because that’s in my face every day. Once we
get our house in order it will make a lot more sense to start reaching
out with other folks. That’s not dissing anybody, it’s just that I don’t
want to spread myself so thin that I become ineffective.
I’m not saying that artists should go to Africa or anything. What I see
is that even the most conscious Black artists don’t have any understanding
of African culture.
I hear what you’re saying, and I’ve studied a lot about African culture
too. You’ve got to realize that most American Black people have a complete
disconnection with Africa. But it’s not a disconnection that happened
as a result of anything that we did. You know how we came here, it’s
not like it was our choice. We came here by force, and we lost all of
that in the transition over here. So when you talk about Africa to most
Black people here it is like talking about a foreign country. We don’t
feel any connection to Africa, we just don’t. That’s the fact. That’s
not to say that we can’t reestablish it, but we don’t feel a connection.
I feel that people can only grow to appreciate what other people have
going on if they travel. I’ve traveled a lot and I’ve experienced a lot.
Traveling has allowed me to have a greater appreciation of how other
people live and see things. It also allows me to understand how what
America does effects people around the world. I’ve seen first hand some
of the effects of US imperialism. I went to Cuba, I was in Havana and
I saw firsthand the effects of the Trade Embargo and shit. I know the
effect American policies have had, especially on countries of people
of color in so-called “third world” countries. It’s something you can
understand more deeply when you travel.
What’s interesting is that without being conscious of Africa, Black people
here do a lot of things just like tribal Africans would do it. When you
look at how rappers approach music and how Black people manipulate Western
dress into something tribal, it’s just amazing.
Absolutely. You could draw parallels between African Americans and Africans
all day long. You also know that a lot of the shit that we do here in
Hip Hop is emulated by other people around the world. When all you see
is negativity coming out of America, most of the material that people
hear about all around the world is endorsed by large corporations—otherwise
it doesn’t get that far. So when you go to Africa and you see a store
called “The Nigga Shop” and Black Africans run it and they sell Hip Hop
shit, what does that tell you about Hip Hop here? It can be a corrupting
force in the same way that it can be an empowering force. That’s why
I recognize the weight of entertainment and I’m gonna make sure I stay
in that lane. I’m gonna give you the shit raw and uncut, and I’m gonna
give you the truth every time I drop.
Once you know the truth how can you not talk about it?
Exactly. So when people complain about Rap, well, I could complain about
it too. But complaining about it ain’t gonna change it. Also understanding
that a lot of artists are not cut out to do what I do. People love to
complain to me about Hip Hop, but I don’t want to hear it. I’m not anybody
else. There’s certain things that I agree with and things that I disagree
with, but I don’t want anybody to be just like me either. I just miss
the time in Hip Hop when it was balanced. I remember a time when I was
excited about what I heard on the radio. I was hearing people that actually
cared abut their craft and they put time and effort and energy into their
shit. It doesn’t seem like that’s the case now. 9 times outa 10 it seems
like it’s a cookie cutter approach to music.
The people who complain to you are rappers or friends? Who are they?
A lot of journalists and people who are not inside the Hip Hop community.
They want to know my opinion about the state of Hip Hop music. Another
thing, when you do political music you get exposed to a lot of people
you normally wouldn’t get exposed to—intellectuals and the progressive
community and shit like that—and everybody has an opinion, but that doesn’t
mean that their opinion is mine.
A lot of people who grew up listening to Hip Hop in the beginning have
gotten older. Someone who was 20 years old is now 35 or 40 years old,
and they can’t relate to what the younger people are doing. Even back
when artists like Public Enemy or you were first coming out, there were
older people who couldn’t understand what you were doing. Sometimes older
people need to open their eyes to what’s going on.
You gotta open your eyes to what’s going on, I understand that, but the
overall quality of shit has gone down. I think the overall quality has
gone down because everything is so much easier to do. Also to see, and
to hear with youtube, myspace, ect. People have entire studios at home,
they don’t need to go to a professional studio. People watch videos on
youtube all day long and they’re all pixilated and fucked-up looking,
but they’ve become used to that. People don’t respect music anymore.
They hear it for free. Everybody feels like they can make beats, everybody
feels like they can rap. Anybody can put their stuff up on youtube. But
I’m telling you that’s not how it is. There’s a reason why certain material
is classic. It’s that way because everybody can’t do it. It’s a bitter
peel to swallow for people when they realize that they can’t do what
certain other people can do. Earth Wind and Fire, Steve Wonder, everybody
can’t do that.
But then there’s the other side of the story. You have a lot of rappers
who wouldn’t ever get a break but get a break because they have a strong
presence on myspace or on youtube.
Of course, and they should have a voice. I’m not taking anything from
them. You could say that what they do and what I do are two completely
different genres. They can both be Hip Hop, but maybe it should be understood
that they’re speaking to a whole different audience than I am. That’s
not being disrespectful.
Access to cheap technology and distribution through the internet has
allowed them to have a voice. They don’t have money to pay for a professional
studio or film a big-budget video, but they still want to put their music
out there. I see it as a positive thing.
It is a positive thing because it lets people’s voices be heard. The
flip side of that coin is that unprofessionally produced material and
lackluster material becomes the norm. When everybody feels like they
can do it and there’s no quality control, then of course the general
quality goes down. It’s the equivalent of having a high definition TV
and watching bootlegs. That’s the analogy right there.
I hear you. There’s too much material out there. If you spend an hour
on youtube you get sick, there’s just too much.
I’m an audiophile man and I love the musical experience. It really depends
on what you’re into it for. I’m into this because I love music, I’ve
always loved music. I have a reference point that’s much deeper than
most folks because I’m older. I can remember a time when music was really
good and moved me, when you had to know how to play live instruments.
A lot of people doing music now don’t have that reference point. There’s
a saying: you can’t miss what you haven’t known. If your idea of old
school is Jay-Z’s mixtape period then I don’t know what to tell you.
It’s a completely difference reference point. I just do what I do, and
for those people that like what I do, come on and be down with it. I’ve
got a community of subscribers and supporters that’s a couple hundred
thousand people. A lot of younger people come on board because they’re
hungering for something more than what they’re hear on TV all day. They
require more than what’s on “106th & Park” or what they hear on KMEL.
It’s got to be more to it than that.
It’s funny that I’m talking to you today, the day of the elections. I
wonder what your take is on this election and the prospect of a Black
president of the United States.
I’m hoping that he wins, we haven’t see the results yet. Regardless of
what you feel about politics and whether or not Obama is aggressive enough—that
always seems to be the concern in our communities, what is he going to
do for us and how progressive is he really? Regardless of how you feel
about that, you have to recognize the fact that he’s inspirational. And
you have to recognize the fact that he has a lot more people interested
in being involved in electoral politics than would be if he wasn’t around.
He’s definitely a positive role model, somebody that we can be proud
of in an environment where most of the imagery of Black men in the media
is negative. You see him, you see his solid family structure and the
fact that he hasn’t been caught up in anything scandalous, he’s a shining
star and he’s brilliant also. I see him in the middle of this sea of
sharks and he does his thing. When you see his intelligence in contrast
to Bush, it’s a nice-day difference. I’m optimistic about the future.
Not only you, not just this country, the whole world is feeling hopeful
right now. Some people are critical of Obama, but he represents change.
Just the fact that people are looking for change is a good thing.
A lot of people are jaded, and they should be jaded because many politicians
have come before him and have talked a good game and haven’t done shit.
But you look around right here in the Bay Area, look at the murder rate
and look at education, look at the war against illegal immigrants and
the police brutality—all of that shit exists, nothing has changed. Things
have only gotten worse. The economy is fucked up. Along with the fucked
up economy comes racial scapegoaters, comes increase in intolerance.
To have somebody that is a reflection of me running shit is something
that I’m lookin forward to.
We were talking about the lyrical content of Rap music. What do you think
about the sound of the music at this time?
There’s something for everybody. I was listening to E-40 a little earlier
today. His style is completely different from mine, but it’s slappin.
There’s a lot of shit that I like on there. There are different sounds
out there from everybody. That’s why I don’t really change lanes. When
people buy my record they know exactly what they’re getting into, they
know exactly what to expect. They know what kind of production to expect
and they know what kind of lyrical content to expect.
What if you had a way to reach the African American youth in a big way?
You make this music that’s loaded with truth and insight, but it’s a
waste to preach to the converted. This message needs to reach the streets.
Absolutely! That’s why it made sense for me to do a deal with Universal
because I knew I’d have a much greater reach. That’s why I did a video
this time out. You’ve gotta see the video. Log on to guerrillafunk.com,
the video’s on the home page. The video is 3D animation, it was all done
at CBS Studios in LA. A lot of money was spent on that video to make
the message more palatable to the younger Hip Hop generation. The video
just got picked up by MTV—I’ve never had exposure on MTV before. The
scope of everything gets a little deeper when you ride with somebody
like Universal and you do all of the things that go along with a proper
release.
How did the deal with Universal come about? Did you approach them?
We were in the top 5% of sales of independent Hip Hop records in 2006.
That was the year that I put out the Public Enemy record. That was the
year I put out T-K.A.S.H. and the “Hard Truth Soldiers” compilation.
Sales were good, and everybody looks at the bottom line. Regardless of
my politics, Universal couldn’t deny that we’re a viable indie. My contract
was up with my previous distributor, so I approached them and let them
know what I wanted to do. My man Rob Spalding over at Universal used
to work at Priority. We started talking and one thing lead to another.
Don’t you sometimes feel like there’s no point, that people are never
going the change? What keeps you going?
Of course I do, I always feel like that! There are times when you love
it and you hate it. It’s like an old friend that I’ve been around forever.
It’s more like a family member, like somebody that you’re joined at the
hip with. I love it, I hate it, I argue with it, but I always come back
to it. I know that I’m going to always do music and I’m gonna do it in
a way that in the end, when all is said and done, when I look back on
it, I’m not embarrassed of it.
