Kevin Locke
Interview by Black Dog Bone
From Murder Dog vol 16 #1
It’s a great time in history right now, where so many people are embracing
indigenous cultures and getting close to nature, looking for solutions
to the problems civilization has created.
There are two processes, both the positive and negative going on at the
same time. Of course the negative part of it is what you call materialism,
without the spiritual connection. Then there’s a lot of positive things
going on, like the spirit of creativity, spirit of integration, spirit
of 
fellowship. Music is a very important part of that. Especially traditional
music and folk music, the field recordings. What they have captured in
those recordings is that dream, that hope, that has lived throughout
many generations, since the beginning of time. They keep that alive through
this oral tradition. It’s not anything that’s written down. They don’t
write their music, it’s passed down from generation to generation. When
you hear that—it could be Africa or Indonesia, anywhere—you hear that
unbroken spirit from the past, that voice from the past. Now people are
coming to a place where they can begin to even hear it. That’s beautiful.
In your music you keep a traditional Native American sound. It’s hard
to do that and still sell records. How did you manage to keep your sound?
That’s right. It’s because, even today we use traditional songs quite
a bit. It’s a whole world that exists, a musical world. Non-Indian people
don’t know that it exists. The part that’s difficult to figure out is
how do you relate this music in a way that non-Indian people can discover
it.
It’s a positive thing when an indigenous person can make a bridge so
that other people can understand and share in their culture. The problem
I see is when that person crosses the bridge and loses their indigenous
culture. They become White/European, and they continue to represent their
native culture.
Right. Definitely. We all have this ability to expand our ability to
become sensitive to different kinds of expressions. When you make that
bridge and people can cross it, it’s all part of the process where people
can become more aware and more conscious. That’s what human expression
is all about.
I saw that you said, “We need physical things for our bodies but we need
divine nourishment for our souls to exist.” To me that sums everything
up. In the modern civilized world we feed our physical bodies but not
our souls. How do you think we can feed our spirits?
Music is one way. In the modern world people use music to feed their
souls. People have various stressful lives. Like right now we’re on the
road, going to Hartfort, Connecticut, and it’s bumper to bumper traffic.
There are accidents and people are rushing and stressed out. People use
music as a way to sooth themselves, as a way to escape the pressures
and stress. They escape reality. But the Native people used music to
connect with reality. You connect with that which is real and good and
true and beautiful. Music is the way to affirm and to feed your soul,
feed your spirit, to keep it alive. We also use dancing like that. The
Native form of dancing is all about creating unity. To create that sense
of oneness, not just amongst people but with all of creation. It’s very
much that way.
You seem to know how to present your music in a way that it can appeal
to a non-Indian audience. You use traditional instruments and play traditional
songs, but the finished product is more polished than a tribal field
recording would be. What direction will you be taking it in your next
album?
We might try to take it more to the roots. We have so many beautiful
songs. I want to do more traditional recordings, more of the traditional
flute music.
All the songs on your album were passed down from your ancestors? How
did they come to you?
These are songs from our tribe, from our elders. When they express themselves,
in their rituals, there’s a song that goes with it. That’s where
that comes from. Most of the people we heard these songs from were born
back in the late 1800’s, early 1900’s. They had all of that and they
passed it down to us.
White Spirit, your grandfather, said he would get stuck in hornets’ nests
and go through all these trials so he would keep himself pure of civilization.
It’s been difficult for Native American people to maintain their way
of seeing and thinking. They were sent to boarding schools and trained
so heavily, that their thought patterns are not really Native American
anymore.
That’s been the policy of the US. The day before yesterday we were down
in Virginia and we went to this Indian school that was established in
1878, and went on until 1923. The policy of that school was to kill the
Indian and save the man. The whole purpose of the education was to somehow
kill the culture, the identity. That’s been the policy of the American
government for many hundreds of years. But somehow a lot of our people
have managed to retain their own identity. For me it’s not about becoming
an American, but about becoming a world citizen, to realize our relatedness
as people. Within that we celebrate our own heritage, but it’s not so
much of being nationalistic. It’s to realize that we all have something
beautiful as a gift of our heritage and that we have something we can
share. We all have something wonderful to add to this emerging global
community.
As a person that understands the importance of traditional cultures,
how are you raising your children? Are you guiding them in the old ways
or pushing them to go to college and join the system?
I’ve got three kids and they’re all in their thirties, and I’ve got six
grandkids. Three of them stay with me and I get to spend a lot of time
with them and teach them a lot of things. It’s a big blessing for me
that I have the opportunity to share with my grandkids now.
Do you kids embrace the Lakota culture?
They always have had that cultural foundation. But they all have their
own ambitions to get out in the world and get good jobs, so that’s what
they’re doing. They have to find their own balance in life.
I was in Chiapas, Mexico recently. I noticed that in the village the
elders are wearing their native clothing—and they’re the most beautiful
clothes—but all of the young people are wearing the European clothes,
jeans and t-shirts. It’s sad to see them losing their traditional roots.
How do you see that we can change this pattern?
One solution is the communities have to take charge of their own education.
One thing that we have in South Dakota where I live is that we have this
standardized curriculum in our own language, the Lakota language. Now
we have a very accurate and standardized alphabet for writing our language.
That’s a great advantage because we can teach the kids to be literate
but in our own language. The language is the key to unlocking our traditional
knowledge. It’s very important. This is the great advantage that’s occurring
at the schools.
Are you connected with other Native American tribes?
Yes, everybody pretty much shares. It’s really good. Like right now we’re
touring and doing performances and one of the performers is from Chippewa-Cree
tribe; another is a Navaho from Arizona. We’re bringing a real nice presentation
to the kids.
It would be good if each tribe could have a program to teach their kids
the way of their people.
I agree. We’re doing that too.
I’m not a Native American, but when I see how you used to live in this
land, with such a beautiful understanding and in balance with nature,
it’s sad to see how it’s changed. I wonder if we could ever get back
to that way of living?
We’re working on it. We’re definitely doing what we can. We’ve gotta
sing more songs. Yes.
You worked with two other people on your CD, Good Feather and Red Shirt.
Who are they?
One of them is sitting right here with me. He’s a really good singer.
We’ve been touring and doing a lot of things together for several years
now.
How many albums do you have out?
I’ve done over 20 albums over the years. I started recording almost 30
years ago, around 1980. It’s been quite a while.
How did you get drawn to music?
I always loved listening to music and I really loved the traditional
music. The part I enjoy about traditional music is that I really l love
the people—my grandparents and other elders who are the great keepers
of those traditional ways. That was the heart felt connection. They passed
the traditional songs onto me.
Do you only do traditional songs or do you also write new songs?
I’ve come up with some of my own compositions. I’m not as gifted at composition
as I’d like to be, but I really like imitating different bird songs on
the flute. Sometimes I get an idea for a song when I hear a bird singing.
Do you consider yourself more a flute player or a vocalist?
The flute has always been a great way of expression. In traditional Lakota
music we just use a couple of instruments—the drum, the flute, the rattle,
and the human voice. These are the four main instruments. Each one of
them has a relationship to nature. Especially this powerful force of
the thunder which is thought to be the physical world. It’s a source
of all life. The drum would be the sound of the thunder and the rattle
would be the sound of the rain, the flute is the wind and the voice is
the lightning. Now we’re going into winter, it’s turning cold. Through
music you can keep that joy, keep that light sustained in people’s hearts.
On your CD you have five songs from the thunder cycle. Can you explain
what that represents?
Those were old songs from the 19th century. There could be more, but
that’s the ones people recognize. They’re in a sequence. What they do
is they describe different aspects when they appear after the winter.
The songs they describe as the clouds, the clouds that appear in the
spring. They describe the very first time the lightning strikes. And
it goes right now the line to describe all different features of the
change of seasons. The animating force that causes seasons to change—the
cold, dark, the beauty, sound and color.
When you buy Native American music, a lot of times what you get is New
Age type music with a lot of keyboards and subdued sounds. I don’t hear
enough of that raw authentic Native American sound.
It’s not out there. Especially a lot of the good recordings you can get
is all about New Age stuff. It has no relationship to the traditional
Native aesthetic or Native expression.
A lot of artists try to cater to the White audience to sell more CD’s.
Do you think we should try to crossover or should we just do our music
without thinking about sales and marketing?
What’s happening is this flute music they call “Native American flute
music”, a lot of people who are doing it are just using it as a form
of self-expression and improvisation. They’re making all these recordings
that have nothing to do with Indian traditional music. It has no connection
whatsoever. And people are going out and buying it thinking it represents
traditional Native music, but it doesn’t. It’s just something that somebody
is feeling, a personal expression.
It doesn’t have the spirit of nature or the tribal feel at all. Do you
see other artists doing something similar to what you’re doing, keeping
the authentic Native American style going?
Yeah, we’ve got so many people that are so dedicated to the Native American
perspective, but the problem is they haven’t been able to cross over
to the non-Indian music world. Somehow the bridge has to be created.
Can you name some other artists that have impressed you?
There are two singers named Primeaux & Mike, and they’re really good.
They have a traditional way of singing but they present it in a wonderful
way that I think is appealing to a non-Indian audience. They use traditional
instruments and their voices are really beautiful.
Do they have CD’s out?
Yes, you can go on Google and find a list of their recordings. And there
are some other singing groups that are good. Like the Black Lodge singers,
they won a Grammy and a lot of awards for their music. Their music is
very tribal with the drumming and chanting, and they have a bunch of
CD’s out.
I’ve heard of some Native American Rap artists. Do you see people blending
the traditional tribal sound with Rap music, doing something that pulls
from both worlds?
There are some people doing that, actually quite a few. There’s a guy
named Litefoot. He’s from Oklahoma. He’s very popular, he does Rap. He
tries to keep a positive message, and he incorporates a lot of Native
American sounds and themes in his music.
You’ve said that the songs were passed to you in vision. What do you
mean by that?
There’s this world that we live in that’s the physical world, but this
world really just a physical manifestation of a spiritual reality. The
spiritual world we can’t come in contact with too often. People have
ways, like they’ll fast and pray in a wilderness area. In North America
so much of what the people have in their culture was obtained in this
way, by sacrificing and fasting to obtain so much knowledge. The knowledge
of different plants, the stories, even the dances and music was obtained
in this way. It was done years ago, but people still can do this and
receive this blessing.
When you go away from civilization to wilderness areas, mountains alone
the spirits will come and pass songs and dances and knowledge onto you?
Exactly. This is occurring in the Native American communities today.
People receive so many songs and different things in that way.
What was it that drew you to this understanding? You could have gone
in a different direction and embraced the White man’s ways.
It’s because of the love I have for my elders. I really wanted to get
as much information as I could—give them the respect and learn as much
as I could from them.
You also do traditional hoop dancing?
I’ve been doing the hoop dancing for a long time. We’re doing quite a
few performances on this tour now. We’ll be in California in a few days.
What does hoop dancing represent to the Lakota tribe?
Hoop dancing is widespread all over the country. You could describe it
as very individualistic. Every hoop dancing has their own way of presenting
the dance. They also have their own explanation as to how they got it
and what it means. My understanding of it was that it came from the past
and it belongs to the organization—they were a service organization and
their main purpose was to perform acts of service for the people. Periodically
throughout the year they would sponsor feasts, and within the feasts
they would have their own music and dance. This particular organization
had the hoop dance. For them the hoop dance was like a choreographed
prayer. The main theme of the prayer is to invoke the symbolism of the
hoop. The hoop represents peace and unity. Represents beauty, harmony
and balance. Represents continuity, and it represents also well-being.
The prayer is that the people can be restored into wholeness and well-being—physically
and also in their thoughts and feelings. Their spiritual well-being can
be restored, not just individually but also collectively, so that all
people can be connected. This is the over arching purpose of the hoop
dancing. It’s a very pervasive theme throughout Native North America,
that people can be restored to wholeness and balance. It also invokes
the drama, the phenomenon of the light coming back into the world after
winter. They use 28 hoops because 28 is the number of days in the lunar
cycle. Like up in the Northern Plains there’s a 28-day period when all
the signs of spring appear. With the hoop dance you invoke all of these
signs. What it really represents is the spirit of life in the heart of
humanity. In a way the hoop dance is like a prayer that the darkness
in the human heart can be transformed into light. You know how some people
are sick; they’re physically sick, or they could have anger or lust or
jealousy. They have things in their heart like darkness. Then you do
this dance as a prayer that all of that can be changed into light and
beauty.
That’s powerful. Imagine what would happen in the world if we didn’t
go to jobs or send our kids to school, and just danced and sang all day.
That’s a good idea, yes! That’s what we need to do. We need more singing
and more dancing. That’s like what we do with our programs, we teach
the kids to dance and sing. It’s really a lot of fun. Like today we had
over 400 kids at our performance. We teach them all to sing a song. First
we do our dances, then we’ll bring 100 hoops out and teach some of the
kids to do the dance. They do great! They’re so focused. I’ll teach them
a hoop dance and maybe a round dance.
Are the kids you teach Native American kids?
No, no. They’re White, Black, Asian, all different backgrounds. The idea
behind it is not so much as a cultural presentation. The main thing is
to encourage the kids to see who they are and to realize that we’re coming
into a world culture where we all have something to very important to
contribute.
